FW: IT DOESN'T matter if you are REPUBLICAN, DEMOCRAT or INDEPENDENT!

From: Dan Kopelman

Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 10:02 AM
To: 'George; 'Frederick
Subject: RE: IT DOESN'T matter if you are REPUBLICAN, DEMOCRAT or INDEPENDENT!

I appreciate the cooler headed approach.

Keep in mind there is capitalism, socialism, and fascism. None are perfect, feel free to describe the one you support that is not associated with the "free-market". Long term, I stand by the free-market even if you and Fred feel it has failed. Pick a better system that is working anywhere in the world and tell me what it is.

-----Original Message-----
From: George
Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 8:36 AM
To: Frederick
Cc: Dan kopelman
Subject: Re: IT DOESN'T matter if you are REPUBLICAN, DEMOCRAT or INDEPENDENT!

Rick, If I bring you in on the loop of an email conversation, I would appreciate it if you would withhold profanity and personal assaults. As long as I am involved, that casts a blemish on me that is disturbing. Dan, please forgive me for having been a catalyst for this, although, please realize that apart from the personal assault and profanity, I am in full agreement.

George

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From: "Frederick
Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 5:19 AM
To: "'Dan Kopelman, "'George
Subject: RE: IT DOESN'T matter if you are REPUBLICAN, DEMOCRAT or INDEPENDENT!

Dan,

You're full of shit, like most of your Trotskyite fellow travelers.
You seem to believe that ANYTHING corporate America does is in the
spirit of "free enterprise" and are incapable of recognizing Trotsky's
ideology - which you are espousing like a true card-carrying acolyte -
because of your self-deluding internal double-speak. What you fail to
realize is that some Wall Street entities are indeed owned and
operated by the likes of the very people who created the Federal
Reserve - and who also ALSO financed the Bolshevik revolution. Talk
about ignoring historical FACT! They are the same people and their
families continue their dynastic "traditions" to this day. Take
Goldman Sachs, just for example. Where did our treasury secretary

come from? Goldman Sachs. Where did Geithner's top aide come from?
Goldman Sachs, again. What was Geithner doing before he became
treasury secretary? He was chairman of the New York Federal Reserve
bank, a branch of the very entity that was created by the great
monopolists of that time (1910) who would tell you that "competition
is a sin".

Having already wasted that many keystrokes, I will take my leave from you.
Good luck with all that and your delusion that you're "informed".

The GOP will continue to produce more of the same candidates until we
are all enslaved. (We're nearly there, already...)


-----Original Message-----


From: Dan Kopelman
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 9:47 PM
To: 'Frederick '; 'George'
Subject: RE: IT DOESN'T matter if you are REPUBLICAN, DEMOCRAT or INDEPENDENT!
Please don't patronize me.
I am guessing that only one of us had gone to Washington DC and battled with Republican and Democrat staff to hold back the socialism and directly decry the false hope of "public/private partnerships"
Only one of us has apparently read the Constitution and still believes in the free-market, warts and all, enough to say no to Federal regulators and bureaucrats. All the straw men in the world do not constitute the truth.

The simple denial of responsibility in "If I have erred in forwarding something that is untrue,..." is on equal footing with "I did not have sexual relations with..." and fat Senators driving their girlfriend off a bridge.
Not being popular is not the same thing as having utter disregard for factual information. Frothing about the Fed and pretending I have sympathy for stupidity in the GOP is a contemptuous lie.
I have stood in the breach of big government and "suffered the slings and arrows" because of my efforts. The only possible conclusion for the accusations against me is that I was effective. God as my witness, I will
prevail in spite of sincere but naive efforts of others to tilt at windmills.

Digging up conspiracies and finding corporate boogie-men is pointless, they are symptoms of a disease known simply as big Government. To stop it you have to go after the source of the problem and cut off its blood $upply.

Corporations can ultimately be held responsible, try holding the Government responsible. Mussolini may be laughing, but only at the misguided efforts to address the wrong problem.
Here is a hint, the FDA is the problem, not "Big Pharma". Another? The SEC is the problem, not "Wall Street". More? SCOTUS has perverted the Commerce clause (Article 1, Section 8 for your review).

I have been at this for a long time can detect a misguided political effort in very short shrift. Do not mistake my attempt to redirect rudderless actions with dislike. Running for office is the ultimate commitment to a
cause and many of us with good ideas have lost on Election Day.

My apologies in advance if anyone was offended by anything said above (this is intentional satire).

Cheers,
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: Frederick
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 7:36 PM
To: 'George '; 'Dan Kopelman'
Subject: RE: IT DOESN'T matter if you are REPUBLICAN, DEMOCRAT or INDEPENDENT!
Someone here doesn't remember the term, "corporatism", which is the real issue here. We are experiencing this rush toward forming these "public/private partnerships" which are the very definition of the term, "corporatism" which at least two of us here recognize as the current trend in our former Constitutional Republic. Il Duce would recognize what we have here in a Sicilian nano-second - and he would laugh heartily to see it so well entrenched here...

-----Original Message-----
From: George
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 14:51
To: Dan Kopelman
Subject: Re: IT DOESN'T matter if you are REPUBLICAN, DEMOCRAT or INDEPENDENT!

Dan,
We obviously don't see things the same. In my book, it takes two to tango.
Culpability lies with both business and officials. Who did Paulson and Geithner work for before they became Treasury Secretaries - Goldman Sachs. 
Do you think Goldman Sachs needed help from the government? Do you think they were seeking power and influence? Don't Presidents appoint these people? Don't these people give huge donations to the people they want in office so they can be appointed to regulatory positions?

Tancredo's letter is a clarification. I don't know all of the details even with that. The largest private enterprise is the Federal Reserve, and they have done tremendous damage and, to a significant extent, run Congress. I firmly believe, and after thousands of hours of reading, am thoroughly convinced of the conspiratorial view of history/politics. But, alas, a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still. I don't care if I'm popular or if people agree with me. My object is to pursue truth and equity for all. If I have erred in forwarding something that is untrue, then I have sinned, and ask God's and your forgiveness. In the future, I
think I will confine all forwarded emails to video clips from recognized news organizations.

Nonetheless, I have dutifully removed you from my email list so you will not be burdened with my views of the world. They don't conform to the Republican Machiavellian view - not that all Republicans are so, but the
preponderance seems to be that way as they apologize for Republicans and condemn Democrats for doing the same thing, and the idea of supporting everyone running under the party banner when some are so obviously unprincipled and hypocritical, is anathema to me. John McCain was shoved down my throat by Ryan Call and many others before Ron Paul had even dropped out of the race - long before. Ron Paulers were targeted by the Republican hierarchy and neutralized at every turn. At least you recognize that some
things are rigged. That is good and a good start.

Geo.

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From: "Dan Kopelman"
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:37 PM
To: "'George
Subject: RE: IT DOESN'T matter if you are REPUBLICAN, DEMOCRAT or INDEPENDENT!
 George,

 Attached is the letter from Tancredo's office written in 2002 (I will  add the text to the end of this email in the event you can't open the attachment) regarding the hoax email you have chosen to spread with a  sophomoric request to drop a meaningless bill in 2009 on. You can read  it or pretend it does not exits, your choice.

 Regarding the activities of a legitimate, private, business. If you  had a corporation, of any size, and it was able to benefit by lobbying  Congress for anything, you would be a complete idiot not to try. It is  illegal to prevent it and un-American to attack private corporations  or individuals against their right to "petition the Government for a  redress of grievance" (this should sound familiar, see Amendment 1, US  Constitution).

 Believe me, I know Ron Paul's staff in DC, his Legislative Director,  Norm Singleton and I used to get together at the Conservative Staff  meetings to pull them to the right. I have met and spoken with the
good Doctor personally more than once, including working with his  people to stop the Patients Bill of Rights in 2001 (we succeeded).

 The "grievance" of Pharmaceutical companies (who contribute to  whomever is in power  http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=H04), is that they  were going to be required to give away their products, on demand, to  Medicare and Medicaid recipients. They negotiated another approach and  succeeded in getting a piece of the action that would otherwise go the  Federal and State bureaucrats. The bad legislation was the fault of  the staff, the simple answer in DC is always "yes," good members often
vote "no" and Dr. Paul and Rep. Tancredo did that often.

 In spite of this, there are lots of big corporations who contribute to  them (http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.php?cid=N00005906&cycle=2006
 &type=I&newMem=N&recs=100). Dr. Paul received $31,740 in PAC  contributions in 2005-2006, some from health care interests, is he at  fault for taking their money and participating in the process?  Tancredo received twice as much in PAC contributions including some  from health care interests. It means nothing. How they voted is what they pre-disposed to do.

Try supporting the free-market and bashing the elected officials and  their hordes of bureaucrats. It is easy to see a conspiracy around  every tree, the problem is you and many others have been duped into  believing that corporations are evil because they are big and every  restriction on our Constitutional right to "petition the Government"  is good because someone might be influenced by a conversation.

 It is wrong and anti-libertarian to go after free enterprise under any  circumstances. The only role of Government when it comes to business  is to enforce contractual agreements, that is it, other than that the
government should get the hell out of the way. Bernie Madoff existed  because some bureaucrat at the SEC was not doing his job, ponzi  schemes are easy to spot (take Social Security for example) and the  contract with the investors did not say anything about a pyramid  scheme.

Of course "it is rigged" it has been since the inception. That is why it is called "politics" (poli - many, ticks - small blood-sucking insects).

Focusing on one, real, looming issue is easy. Pick one ("Ron Paul is not an issue he is a person) and become fluent at addressing it.

Lastly, there is no defense for the Bush spending spree, the Obama spending spree is now over 4 times the worst year of the Bush administration. Your rage against the past (Bush and Gengrich) are as meaningless as Obama's "we inherited this ..." crap. You undermine efforts to stop socialized medicine by sending misguided emails with nothing but windmills to attack (I forward 0.05% if that). Weeding out lies and innuendo in emails, even from trusted sources is easy, use any search engine and read.

Regards,
Dan


-----Original Message-----
From: George
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 9:12 PM
To: Dan kopelman
Subject: Re: IT DOESN'T matter if you are REPUBLICAN, DEMOCRAT or
INDEPENDENT!

As you wish. I was given to understand that Congressmen get a pension that is far superior to Social Security, and that they would be exempt from the regulations of the new Health Care bill. Weeding out
erroneous info is not always easy. Many times we're getting half truths which are impossible to argue. I pass on things that come from people who have a reasonably high degree of credibility with me. I'm inundated with this stuff (only a small part ever gets passed on - maybe 2- 5%, and I usually put a caveat or a question mark on it so people who have more time might check it out and respond if it is in error.

You'll have to convince me I've done anything to undermine the efforts to stop socialized medicine. As regards the attack on the private-sector drug makers, I assume that's in regard to Codex Alementarius. I've read from a number of sources about that, and if there is error let me know. The Pharmaceutical companies were the largest contributor to the Bush administration, and therefore, they got a Medicare/pharmacy bill. Yes, the Congress votes on this stuff, but the President as a tool for the "Establishment" proposes spending
and budgets which is not his prevue, but he does it anyway. Yes, the Congress is voting on it, and they become a rubber stamp for the Executive in power if the majority if from the same party as it was in
most of Bush's administration. Witness the fact that the Gingrichites who were professing Republicans gave Bill Clinton more money in the budget than he asked for, and a whole lot to Bush - the biggest spending
increases in the history of our government to that date. Our current economic situation is directly attributable to the Republican malfeasance in office, and the malfeasance continues to be perpetuated by the Democrats. It is a vicious cycle, and if Obama drives the voters back into the hands of the Republicans, you will find that they are no better. It is a rigged deck.

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From: "Dan kopelman"
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 1:09 PM
To: "George
Subject: RE: IT DOESN'T matter if you are REPUBLICAN, DEMOCRAT or
INDEPENDENT!

The 1983 Social Security reform changed this, making most of it a load of BS. Members of congress pay FICA, medicare and for their Insurance under the Federal Employee Health Benefit program, just like all other federal employees.

It is a total waste of time to forward these things and does nothing but undermine efforts to stop things like the Socialization of Health Care in the US.

George,
This, with the attack in your recent e-mail attacking private-sector drug makers rather than the politicians they try to influence indicates you have little policy understanding or free-market accumen.

If you insist on the continued rumor mongering rather than sending useful, actionable information, please take me off your distroibution list.

Respectfully,
Dan



-----Original Message-----
From: George
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 8:32 PM
Subject: IT DOESN'T matter if you are REPUBLICAN, DEMOCRAT or
INDEPENDENT!

Propose this in 2009:

START A BILL TO PLACE ALL POLITICIANS ON SOCIAL SECURITY
---------------

(This is worth reading. It is short and to the point.)

PERHAPS WE'RE ASKING THE WRONG QUESTIONS.

Our Senators and Congresswomen DO NOT pay into Social
Security and of course, they do not collect from it-they have a
BETTER PLAN!

You see, Social Security benefits were not suitable for
persons of their rare elevation in society. They felt they should
have a special plan for themselves. So, many years ago they voted in
their own retirement plan.

In more recent years, no congressperson has felt the need to
change it. After all, it is a great plan . . . for THEM.

For all practical purposes their plan works like this:

When they retire, they continue to draw the same pay until
they die.

Except it may increase from time to time for cost of living
adjustments.

For example, Senator Byrd and Congressman White and their
wives may expect to draw $7,800,000.00 (that's Seven Million, Eight
Hundred Thousand Dollars), with their wives drawing $275,000.00
during the last years of their lives. This is calculated on an
average life span for these two dignitaries.

Younger Dignitaries, who retire at an earlier age, will
receive MUCH MORE during the rest of their lives.

THEIR COST for this excellent plan is $0.00. NADA!!!
ZILCH!!!

They voted for themselves this little perk which is free to ...